• whale-av

    @cfry That's a bit tricky as it depends on the source. Some large / huge spaces are beautiful for a slow solo voice and impossible for a faster piece with multiple instruments and a beat.
    The same is true for a reverb effect. Sometimes you have use unnatural settings to achieve what you want and some natural reverb settings will feel completely wrong in a space which looks nothing like what you are hearing.
    And huge real spaces (cathedrals) tend to be dull........ long RT60 with loads of low frequencies and no treble..... and I often have to add a more "bright" reverb to make the music intelligible.
    As @bocanegra says you are searching for a pleasing sound.
    I wouldn't use more than 24ms of pre-delay as it can sound like an echo bouncing around and confuses the ears........ better to increase the reverb time (decay) for a large space and stay with about 14-17ms of pre-delay.
    David.

    posted in technical issues read more
  • whale-av

    @Coalman In 64-bit Pd........ list_test.pd
    Capture.JPG

    I remember Arrays were limited to 4 million elements by [soundfiler] in 32-bit Pd but that could be increased, although it would cause problems with single precision floats...... https://forum.pdpatchrepo.info/topic/3260/long-soundfiles-in-pd/10
    For 64-bit Pd an array can be bigger.... about 2 billion elements........ see your Pd/doc/1.manual/x5.htm and scroll down to Pd 0.49.
    David.

    posted in technical issues read more
  • whale-av

    @cfry This one's not too heavy....... vfreeverb~.pd
    Reverb just being delays and filters you can use it twice for quad and use only very slightly different settings for each stereo pair so as to give some different focus.
    As your source is central the delays should probably be the same though and maybe you should bounce each pair very subtly back into the others input.
    David.

    posted in technical issues read more
  • whale-av

    @ingox said:

    My opinion is that the whole selector system is dubious. [abc( should just be a symbol.

    Yes. "all" is not special...... it is just that any single atom text is treated as text unless tagged as a symbol. A great source of confusion and changing that would be good.......
    But it is not special....... it will trigger a bang through [route all] just like any other single atom text...... but will not trigger [sel all].
    At the moment a single atom text will [route] and produce a bang........ but for it to trigger [select] it must first be tagged as a symbol........ crazy.... :rage:

    The other sources of problems can be that an automatically tagged list........ a list starting with a float..... can require a [list trim] before being passed on...... although for the user there is no indication that the message has had the list tag added.
    And that a list of two symbols although routed correctly loses the symbol tag for the second atom when passing through [route] because it has become a singleton and reverted to text....:angry: ...... That issue would also be addressed by your suggestion.

    So yes....... a singleton text should be a symbol....... and can still be a selector that will trigger a bang.

    Consistency between objects needs addressing and the selector system would be fixed I think.
    And single atom text being a symbol might be all that is required, if any single atom is treated as a selector in the same way as any first atom is currently and [list] is made consistent between atom types.

    We have had this discussion previously...... https://forum.pdpatchrepo.info/topic/12794/route-list-vs-array-problem/15

    But nothing can actually be done without a serious plan....... we are wasting our time except when we document these anomalies.
    The elephant in the room is the millions of patches already in existence.
    If we can work out how to make the changes we would like....... without any changes to those existing patches being necessary..... then we will have a proposal for the list.... :heart_eyes:

    That might be possible........ but I think that the current inconsistency of the triggering of a bang will put a spanner in the works.
    So maybe only alternative objects..... [routeNEW] [selectNEW] etc. would be possible while continuing with the old message system..
    David.

    Capture.JPG

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  • whale-av

    @ingox Yes...... the same rule applies as for [route] ...... a tagged list of one symbol is converted to symbol.

    Time to do a thorough analysis of [select] then......... but there is a lot more to unwrap because symbols and floats can...... sort of..... be mixed as arguments if tagged.
    And worse (although sometimes useful I suppose) a second atom of a list goes to the right inlet of [select] when there is only one argument........ so [list all no-go(
    ...... but [list all 25( works as the creation argument is a symbol so cannot be changed to a float.
    David.

    posted in technical issues read more
  • whale-av

    @ingox Yes...... top right in the screenshot above.
    David.

    posted in technical issues read more
  • whale-av

    @ingox To be auto-tagged as a list the list has to start with a float.
    See [pd special_cases_of_lists] and then the part at the bottom left......... route-help.pd
    You will see that as a list passes through [route] the list header is removed but if the list starts with a float it is always a list and goes through as such to the second [route].
    Somewhere it is documented that a list that starts with a float is treated as a list even without the list header.

    I think I added that help-file to the forum in May last year..... frustrated by [route] like @ddw_music
    It's a bit messy though.
    David.

    Capture.JPG

    posted in technical issues read more
  • whale-av

    @oid That's interesting. I didn't know the [key] window focus had changed.
    So not universal...... it won't work in extended...... but extended is dead apparently.
    David.

    posted in technical issues read more
  • whale-av

    @raynovich Yes you can use [vis 0(....... main.pd
    However I am pretty sure that if it was your only window then you will need to open another patch to get that window back on screen (if you need to).
    David.

    posted in technical issues read more
  • whale-av

    @ddw_music I don't know of one.
    You can (not documented) send "click" to [text define] to pop open the window, but it doesn't work for [array define].
    David.

    posted in technical issues read more
  • whale-av

    @jbohn This should work...... live-b.pd ..... maybe.
    I think you need to read https://forum.pdpatchrepo.info/topic/13320/welcome-to-the-forum ...... and it is a good idea to use triggers to ensure the correct order of operations where necessary. They also help us to see how your patch works when you upload it for us.
    David.

    posted in technical issues read more
  • whale-av

    @ddw_music The old extended route-help explained the 3 modes for [route]...... route-help.pd in the "inlets" section.
    And there was a bit more info in all_about_route.pd especially that the list header is stripped and so [route list] followed by [route list] will fail for the second.
    But mixing data types in a single [route]..... i.e. [route 5 woof] will not work as expected..... so unsupported.
    David.

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  • whale-av

    @Obineg In the PMPD/examples folder is a file 28_Lia.pd that uses [link] with [mass]
    There might be other examples of 1D in there as well.
    David.

    posted in technical issues read more
  • whale-av

    @Dizzy-Dizzy Lucarda has done a lot of work updating externals for Deken....... and also updated the list of extended externals 3 years ago....... https://puredata.info/docs/ListOfPdExternals/
    If you look for the object you need on that page then you will see in italics the name of the library that contains the object. Sometimes they exist in more than one library but usually have the same function.
    Of course many other libraries now exist that did not when extended was released (2013)....... and some of those may contain externals with the same name. But that list is for the original libraries.
    David.

    posted in Off topic read more
  • whale-av

    @blurryface Incoming audio is processed in Pd in "blocks" of 64 samples and then the block is sent out (I wanted to type "spat out" so I have). This is normal, and what the operating system expects...... so it can get on with other stuff until the next block arrives.
    64 samples is about 1.45 milliseconds...... it depends on the samplerate......... so any incoming audio will not be sent out for 1.45 msecs....... the latency of Pd.
    @ 44.1kHz 64/44.1=1.451
    @ 48kHz 64/48=1.333

    You can measure your total system audio latency using latency.pd which you will find in Pd/doc/7.stuff.
    More info about latency, buffers etc. in Pd/doc/1.manual/x3.htm
    David.

    posted in technical issues read more
  • whale-av

    @raynovich Change the extension for the file from "pd" to "txt" (maybe different for a mac or for Linux) and then you can open it in a text editor.
    And no....... no direct method..... I was thinking of a canvas..... for which you can query its position within the window......
    David.

    posted in technical issues read more
  • whale-av

    @raynovich I think so and can't remember how.
    If you drag a window somewhere you can indirectly get the coordinates by sending [print y( to the patch or sub-patch...... where y will be the name of a file that will be written to the folder that contains the patch.
    Look right down the bottom of the file and you will find everything that has happened to the window since it was opened.
    I will maybe remember though.........
    David.

    posted in technical issues read more
  • whale-av

    @jbohn You can fix that by storing the counter value in an [f] float so it is only banged through by the [metro] rather than sending it straight back into [expr] and causing a feedback loop.......
    Capture.JPG
    @lacuna gives good advice...... and I would add that your patch is very hard to read as you have used no [t] triggers so we don't know in what order things are happening.
    Have a look at the welcome post too https://forum.pdpatchrepo.info/topic/13320/welcome-to-the-forum or you will have more problems very soon.........
    David.

    posted in technical issues read more
  • whale-av

    @olisaintpierre It might be possible to multicast so as to use only one [netsend] in the sender, but in the meantime this might work..... maybe.zip as I don't think you need the PdParty OSC Server for this.
    David.

    posted in technical issues read more
  • whale-av

    @plusch The usual folder structure in windows is a top folder called Pd.
    If installed it will be in the Program Files or Program Files (x86) folder.
    The contents look like this........
    Capture.JPG

    The bin folder contains the Pd executables Pd.exe and Pd.com
    Usually Pd.exe is the program started when a patch is opened.
    Anything in the bin folder will be found by Pd when it starts.
    The wish program is in there...... it does the heavy lifting..... the console window and calls all the GUI stuff that is in the tcl folder.

    Pd also knows to look in the doc folder as all the help files for vanilla objects are in its sub-folder "5.reference".

    Pd also looks in the "extra" folder for externals.
    But only as they are created.
    Once it has found an object it remembers (until it is shut down) and doesn't need to search again.
    So most libraries in the extra folder (and their help files) will work straight away.

    But not single binaries...... some libraries just have a single binary that contains all its objects.
    The problem is that an object in a single binary cannot be found by its name........ for example pix_video does not exist as a binary.......... it is wrapped up in the Gem binary.
    A command........ -lib Gem...... must be added to the Pd startup preferences "Startup Flags" box.
    The Gem single binary is then loaded as Pd starts and it has then already found all the objects.

    If you install libraries elsewhere Pd cannot find them unless the whole path to the library is added to Pd Path Preferences.
    And if it is a single binary that is also true....... and it will also need the -lib flag and to be added to the flags.

    Although this behaviour causes a lot of "cannot create" problems when libraries are not installed to the extra folder it is useful as mentioned above when you don't want Pd to find an external....... or more especially you want to limit where Pd looks for objects so that it does not find other abstractions with the same name.
    It also allows you to run many different releases of Pd without them interfering with each other if you don't actually "install" them....... but just put them in a folder somewhere.

    BUT....... the Pd path and startup preferences are stored in the registry........ separately for 32 and 64 bit flavours. So all 64-bit versions will share their preferences settings (and 32-bit theirs).
    The way around that is to start Pd from a batch file that specifies paths and flags...... then each release can be completely separated.
    Batch files can also specify the other Pd command line flags....... so you can also set up different soundcards for example specifically for each Pd.exe.

    David.

    posted in technical issues read more
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