Hi All,

Just downloaded Pd version 0.51-3 for Mac OS & spent the last day or so refamiliarising myself with it.
I was working on a patch - I had to leave the computer so I saved the patch.
When I got back to it I couldn't seem to bring up the list of modules (Esc key).

Is this something I have done or am not doing I wonder?

Any help would be much appreciated. Thank you.

I think that in Automatonism (a system built with Pd) the esc key brings up the list of the readymade modules but that is not a default for Pd itself as far as I know.

In Pd if you right click the blank page and choose 'help' you get a list of basic objects. And if you choose the menu bar Help>Browser... you get help and examples.

Hi beem,

Thanks for the message.

"the esc key brings up the list of the readymade modules"

Yes - I was using the Escape key but it seemed to stop working.

The other 2 options bring up lists, but they are not accessible like the readymade modules, I think.

Just to clarify - are you using Automatonism?

@JackOats said:

The only reference to name I can see is Pd version 0.51-3 for Mac OS.

Sorry! Just found the Automatonism reference on the Module list.

Actually, when I click on File/New I get a blank page.

Really having trouble getting my head around this.

Sometimes I get the proper working page up - with the 2 lines that are not to be deleted - & I can get to the module list by pressing the ESC key. Sometimes not.

It seems if I Save As the project I can't, then, when I open it again, carry on & add any more modules to it.

Very frustrating & confusing.

@JackOats said:

Actually, when I click on File/New I get a blank page.

I'm not familiar with Automatonism, but what you've described here is the default Pd behavior for a new patch.

If there is some other behavior for a new patch that you're used to, it's because of an add-on or mod, which may have an installation or configuration problem, or maybe it's incompatible with the newer Pd version. (But I've never done any mods, so someone else would have to help you here.)

hjh

If you are completely new to PD - is it possible that, when you re-open a patch to edit it, you do not enter "EDIT" mode? You need to ctrl/cmd-E to lock/unlock edit mode. Apologies if that's not your issue at all!

@JackOats the problems you are having are to do with using Automatonism which is a system built with Pure Data - it makes things easier by giving you a set of readymade modules, but it can be confusing because you are still working within Pure Data. So when you click on File/New Pd gives you a blank Pd canvas - that's normal. It seems that in Automatonism you need to use the main.pd file as the starting point.

Any Automatonism users here who can help?

I had a quick look at the Automatonism docs and found this note...
"9 IMPORTANT!!! In order for Automatonism to work properly, each patch needs to contain the correct folder structure. A folder--that you can name freely--must contain the folder "patch_editor_abs" and the pd-file "main.pd". Copy the entire main parent folder to start a new project. Please do not add the abstractions to your PD Search path, because the state svaing system will be writing textfiles in your external folders."

@JackOats it seems like maybe the best thing is to make a copy of the Automatonism folder and rename it for each patch setup you want to keep.

Hi Load074 -

" 𝑖𝑠 𝑖𝑡 𝑝𝑜𝑠𝑠𝑖𝑏𝑙𝑒 𝑡ℎ𝑎𝑡 ... 𝑦𝑜𝑢 𝑑𝑜 𝑛𝑜𝑡 𝑒𝑛𝑡𝑒𝑟 "𝐸𝐷𝐼𝑇" 𝑚𝑜𝑑𝑒?"

Thanks for the thought, but there's no problem with that.

Hi beem -

"9 𝐼𝑀𝑃𝑂𝑅𝑇𝐴𝑁𝑇!!! 𝐼𝑛 𝑜𝑟𝑑𝑒𝑟 𝑓𝑜𝑟 𝐴𝑢𝑡𝑜𝑚𝑎𝑡𝑜𝑛𝑖𝑠𝑚 𝑡𝑜 𝑤𝑜𝑟𝑘 𝑝𝑟𝑜𝑝𝑒𝑟𝑙𝑦 ...

Yes, I saw this, but couldn't quite take it all in.

"𝑖𝑡 𝑠𝑒𝑒𝑚𝑠 𝑙𝑖𝑘𝑒 𝑚𝑎𝑦𝑏𝑒 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑏𝑒𝑠𝑡 𝑡ℎ𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑖𝑠 𝑡𝑜 𝑚𝑎𝑘𝑒 𝑎 𝑐𝑜𝑝𝑦 𝑜𝑓 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝐴𝑢𝑡𝑜𝑚𝑎𝑡𝑜𝑛𝑖𝑠𝑚 𝑓𝑜𝑙𝑑𝑒𝑟 𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝑟𝑒𝑛𝑎𝑚𝑒 𝑖𝑡 𝑓𝑜𝑟 𝑒𝑎𝑐ℎ 𝑝𝑎𝑡𝑐ℎ 𝑠𝑒𝑡𝑢𝑝 𝑦𝑜𝑢 𝑤𝑎𝑛𝑡 𝑡𝑜 𝑘𝑒𝑒𝑝."

Would this be the main folder in my Downloads, or do I make a new folder to put the main.pd file in for each new project?

Seems a bit labyrinthine.

@JackOats Yes, it's not easy to understand.
As Pd opens it searches it's "standard paths" for all the objects that it needs, and all the objects that have been added to the "extra" folder....... these added objects are called "externals" as they are not bundled with vanilla Pd.
Unless you have added paths to "Menu/File/Preferences/startup" or "Menu/File/Preferences/Paths" then it will only search Pd/bin and Pd/Extra. Those paths might be a little different on a Mac....?.....http://msp.ucsd.edu/Pd_documentation/x4.htm (The file is also inside your Pd/doc folder).

So Pd will not "find" any objects in other folders....... a path (to search) has not been given and it doesn't know where to look.

But when you open a Pd patch by double-clicking it Pd is pointed to that folder and adds it to the search paths (for this session) so that it can find any necessary abstractions that you have added to that folder (lets call it your "patch folder").

From here on I am guessing based on what @beem has posted....... but I am most likely on the right path
Automatism seems to have a tool for storing "presets" to a file so that they can be recalled when you reopen your patch.
The files mentioned will be part of that system and I imagine the storage files will be written within the folder.
It would be a disaster (for you) if Pd had already found main.pd (and maybe the folder patch_editor_abs ) somewhere else, as hey presto it would be using those copies from now on and all the (wrong for your project) data stored within.
So the first thing to be sure of is that no copy of those files are within the startup search paths.

Now.... if you double-click main.pd in your folder it will be that copy of main.pd that is found, and because it is in that folder it will save the stored settings within that folder and they will be recalled when you open the patch next time.
The same will be true for another folder containing main.pd + the patch_editor_abs folder.
It could be that opening patches in both folders will save any settings in the wrong place...... beware.... as once Pd has found and loaded one main.pd it will continue using that copy until the next session.

So......
I think you should keep the original Automatism folder out of your search paths so that it is not found.
You should copy the main.pd file and the patch_editor_abs folder from the original Automatism folder into your new patch folder (that you can name freely) and then start work by double-clicking main.pd .
It looks like the settings for your patch will be saved in the "statesave" folder.
The next time you open Pd by double-clicking main.pd in your folder you should have what you need.
David.
Ps...... of course if you will only ever want one copy of Automatism then it can be in the startup paths.
Then you simply open it by double-clicking main.pd. But if you want to save a session with different choices it will not be possible.

Wow! Thank you very much David. I'll need to read that again - carefully, to further understand what's going on.

It might help if I also add that after saving a patch (File/Save) when I reopen it I can't carry on working on it.

I mean I can get up the Module list (Esc key) but selecting a module produces nothing. So I can't expand/develop the patch.

@JackOats I will download it and have a look when I get the chance, but with the extra info in your last post someone will probably see the solution.....
A thought..... as it seems to be saving in the "statesave" folder maybe you need to save the whole patch folder and not just main.pd....... but maybe that is what it should do anyway if there is a save button in main.pd somewhere.
David.
But maybe you do already have another copy in a search path somewhere?

Will have a look around.

Thank you David.

Very kind.

@JackOats So....... when you click a button (bang) on the "modules" screen a copy of a patch that is in the patch_editor_abs folder is dynamically placed on the main.pd patch window by the appropriate sub-patch within the sub-patch [pd patch-editor-do-not-delete] which should be at the bottom left of the main.pd window.
If that subpatch is there....... and the patch_editor_abs folder is in the folder with main.pd...... and the [declare -path patch_editor_abs] object is still there in the main.pd window then there is another problem, but what?
It seems the download was encrypted, so could it be a macOS permissions problem?
Look at any messages in red in the Pd terminal window when you click a module button and upload a screenshot if there are any please.
David.
Also, try a new download, and just put the unzipped folder on your desktop and see if that works correctly.

I have to relinquish the Mac to my wife for the rest of the day.

So will get back to you as soon as I can.

Thank you David.

O.K. So I started a new patch. Just the basic oscillator. I created a new folder on my Desktop. I 'Saved' the new project to the new folder. When I opened the project up, from the Desktop folder - it opened as a diagrammatic 'Comments' page'. No working modules. Have to get to the bottom of this, it's so frustrating.

@JackOats I am using windows...... but if we get no further I will try it in my mac partition.
But I have Snow Leopard....... and maybe you have later security features.
Windows tells me that the download is from another computer...... and marks it in green (as potentially dangerous) but it runs fine.
Clicking a button copies a module to the main.pd window.
Clicking the save button saves paramters.
Saving main.pd saves with the module on the main.pd window and it is there when I reopen the patch.

1. Do you get any red messages in the Pd console? (set it to log level 2 or 1)?
2. If you click "get info" for the folder does that give any clues?

David.
P.S. Maybe try the first folder "Automatism 3.1" and not the one inside _MacOSX
If I look inside main.pd from the macosx folder it is not a patch...... I get this.....

Mac OS X                  2   Ú     
  
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@whale-av Hi David

Thanks for the message. I am on Catalina.

As you can see I downloaded the latest version from the Automatonism site (3.1). This one's called 'purr-data'.
I still get the same problems. I can make a patch but saving it & saving parameter settings is not working yet.

Not sure how to "get info" - sorry!