@impression If you go the route of moving the GOP, [iemguts/canvasposition] will be of help, stick one in the subpatches/abstractions to get their location as needed so you don't have to track all the GOP positions manually, something like this:

@impression Dynamic patching can do all you need, [iemguts/canvasdelete] will be of great use and simplify everything, the iemguts library might have other externals which will be of use to you as well. Using [send] and [receive] and their audio counterparts instead of physical connections is nice when practical, lets you just pass the names to the [send]/[send~]/[throw~]s in the abstraction through its arguments. Previous post has some on dynamic patching and there is a good amount about it on the forum.

Moving the GOP could probably work, pd can handle a surprising amount, just stick a [switch~] inside of any abstraction which does audio rate stuff so you can turn it off and be sure to turn off any message rate stuff in the appropriate way when you hide it.

You can show a gop in a gop, what is not working for you?

@atux [bonk~] might work for you. It has been years since I have played with it but if memory serves for a simple source of 3 fairly different sounds like kick, snare, and hihat I did not even have to use the [learn( method, just get it configured right and I was able to use the color temp part of the right outlet and some [moses] to get bangs for each instrument. But I don't really remember the details and can not seem to locate the patch I used it in. The help file is not the greatest but other than the [learn( method it was fairly easy to figure out.

There is also pd-next which is mostly vanilla pd but with color themes and [closebang]/[initbang]. Nice for those that prefer vanilla but don't want to stare at a white screen.
https://forum.pdpatchrepo.info/topic/10943/a-little-pd-mod

@gentleclockdivider Realized I completely missed your point. This behavior is the same as it is with messages.

My guess is that the logic is that it will cause an error in the log window instead of possibly difficult to find problems. Imagine if you had a bunch of [text]s or [value]s or [send]s or what ever all with a common basename and one with just the basename, [v i], [v i1], [v i2] etc and were passing those names to abstractions through a float in their arguments with a [symbol i$1] in the abstraction, passing the escaped dollar argument means you get an error instead of accidentally setting the wrong [v] since it is very unlikely anyone would have an escaped dollar argument in the name of their [v] or what ever. If the symbol just combined with the empty symbol to create [symbol i] things would seem to work or might do something bad depending what your [v]s are used for and you will have no error message to control click on to find the problem, all you would know is that it did not work correctly.

@polyplexmescalia Most people won't notice the difference between aliasing and the weird smearing of low quality mp3s, so downsampling might be enough for your needs? Perhaps fake the smearing with an allpass filter/phaser on top of the downsampling?

@willblackhurst What are you using to make the screen capture? I never had an issue using ffmpeg and jack_rec. A bit of speculation, it is how PipeWire and Jack are setup, your screen capture app does not speak Jack and PipeWire is trying to sync the realtime audio from Jack with the non-realtime audio of what ever screen capture app you are using. Pure conjecture, I have not played with PipeWire enough to say for certain, and the time I have spent with it was quite awhile ago. Does your screen capture app speak jack or what ever you are using for audio in pd?

When I did this I believe I did something like this:

When you are done with your capture just run killall on ffmpeg and jack_rec and then use ffmpeg to combine the audio and video. Audio and video were not quite synced but they were close enough for the majority of cases and you really had to look for it to see they were out of sync, not difficult to fix if needed.

A little ridiculous, had to jump through some hoops to get that symbol back into a float. I used the -u flag of [fudiparse] so I could just use a simple [list split] in an earlier version but [fudiparse] and [fudiformat] should drop in now. There is some external which would make the symbol to float conversion easier but I can never remember which one it is and I have been trying to figure out the logic of why some float symbols will not convert with [float] and they weirdly are not even consistent regarding which hoops you have to jump through, first time I had to form a list and put it into a [text].

What about implementing your own fixed or floating point encoding for sysex? Break the float into two ints at the decimal, first first bit of the message is the length of the first int, reconstruct after the fudiparse?

Edit: Suppose a simple integer based fp implementation would not actually work here, did not think that through.

@Vnms nope, no python knowledge required, you just run the script with the output of the web app as args and it gives you what you need to stick into [biquad~].

@Vnms I have used https://github.com/drmartinjaros/biquadgraphpd for calculating this stuff, makes it simple and might help you find your flaw and should work better than ChatGPT.

@gentleclockdivider manual or help files or here on the forum, too long ago to recall. Seb gives the full answer above, I put it in pd terms since most (including myself) find pd far easier to understand than pd's dense C.

Regarding Max's join, make it, just an abstraction away. [list store] mostly does that and a great deal more.

@gentleclockdivider Yeah, will fix that error. The first inlet in the case of [pack] is always a list, a float or symbol is just a list of one element list. Internally [pack] works like this:

So left inlet will always add the appropriate selector even if it is a single element.

@gentleclockdivider First inlet of [pack] and many objects treats everything on the first inlet as a list which it unpacks and fans out to the other inlets in order, a symbol or float is just a list of one element in this case.

This is standard behavior for vanilla objects. [pak] is not vanilla and many external objects go against vanillas standard behavior.

@FFW try this, open ffw-test.pd and see if it expands on mouse over and shrinks when the mouse leaves. Restart pd before opening it just in case you have one of those weird things going on caused by a confused instance of pd. This should work,
Archive.zip
Edit: if it doesn't work, what version of pd are you running?

@FFW That is because you are not sending 0 to the third argument and then 1 or 2 as I do in mine. Sending 0 to that argument disables GOP then sending 1 or 2 reenables it which tells pd to redraw and the reason for all that extra stuff at the bottom of mine. Try something like this for your minimal test:

This should make it work, donecanvasdialog does the exact same thing as the canvas properties dialog does when you click "ok" or "apply," this is the exact message the tcl/tk frontend sends to the pd core so if your canvas properties dialog works than this should work.

Edit: Fixed some errors in the image, had 1 instead of $1.

@FFW said:

And [donecanvasdialog( is worse: all the guis remain visible as ghosts.

With your version or with the one I posted?

Your issue with the seq helpfile is just an error in the helpfile, possibly who ever made it used a custom font which can cause such issues for everyone who uses the default fonts.

@FFW This seems to work, but I can not quite see why yours does not work and I went through it removing every possible cause I could think of until I had pretty much this same patch, and it didn't work. Patch it together from scratch and it works, so probably something stupid and easy to miss in your patch and we are both missing the obvious. I added a third and fourth argument so you have shrunk width and hight and expanded width and height for args now and left some of the details for you to fill in.
ffw.pd

This seems pretty useful, easy way to make menus and dynamic interfaces, good idea to stick this in an abstraction, never dawned on me to do such a thing.

@FFW That one was my bad, I had not looked closely enough at your screenshot before responding. I am not seeing an obvious cause of your issue but a couple things jump out at me and could be troublesome. You are sending two coords messages for EVERY motion event on the parent canvas, put a [change -1] between the [expr] and the [sel 1] so it only does it once when the state actually needs to change. This will also make your expand and shrink methods work as expected, as of now if you send [expend( to the left inlet when the mouse is outside of the GOP it will immediately shrink back down the second the mouse moves, which I don't think is what you want?

Something like this would also be considerably more efficient than your [expr], as you have things now if you had 20 abstractions in the canvas which use this you do the [expr] 20 times for every motion event, that could really add up and cause problems, Did not test this, believe I have the logic right but if I don't it should demonstrate it. Obviously you would want to update x-max and y-max on every expand/shrink.

Adding in the [change] might fix things, pd might be getting confused by all those coords messages you are sending, not sure, no time to dig into it right now.

@FFW As far as I am aware there is no good way to determine how deeply nested in the patch an abstraction is. In the past when I have needed this I have used [canvasindex] since it produces no output if toplevel, something like this:

Possibly warrants a feature request on the pd github, results may happen quicker with an iemguts feature request but I am not sure if umlaeute has any interest in extending the features of iemguts but he is quick about dealing with bugs. Probably will not be a feature of vanilla anytime soon since the official way to deal with such things is [namecanvas] and named canvases which covers most use cases. With how things currently stand, numerical depth is more suited to the iemguts workflow than the pd workflow,

Edit: Not completly certain I understood you use case. Do you actually need to determine depth? Is the issue nested canvases? If depth is constant then [iemguts/sendcanvas] will solve your issue. I suspect my post was going the wrong direction and you don't need to worry about depth?