Hello,
I've used [delread~] and [delwrite~] in the past with no problem, but I've always wondered what the [delay~] object does. It supposedly takes an argument in its right inlet that determines the delay in samples, but it doesn't actually seem to do this. If it receives a 0, there's no delay, but if it receives any other value, it seems to create the same delay (less than a second), regardless of what that value is. [z~] seems to do what [delay~] should, but I'm wondering why the latter exists.

(I just found this and the person was simply told to use the above mentioned objects: http://forum.pdpatchrepo.info/topic/2955/delay-does-not-work/2 )

Thanks in advance!

I can also confirm that [delay~] seems to be broken.

[z~] seems to do what [delay~] should, but I'm wondering why the latter exists.

The thing is that [delay~] is part of the cyclone library, and the intention behind this library is to help the conversions between Max 5 patches into Pd. These conversions are quite trivial to do, but the objects need to be the same.

Cheers,
Gilberto

Ah, so there's a [delay~] object in Max that works, so when you open a Max patch containing it in PD, the [delay~] will be there but not work?

(also, I obviously meant "right inlet" above - fixed it.)

For sure the original idea was for it to work on Pd. This is probably a bug in the library though (cyclone seems to have quite a few of these).

For me, it has the following problems:

• the argument does not work
• the values sent to the second inlet are clipped in the range 0 to 44100, so no delay longer than 1s can be achieved

@gsagostinho Ah, I see. Thanks for the information.

It might be that the help patch is wrong. This delay~-help.pd might explain better how [delay~] works.

Greetings,

Fred Jan

@electrickery Thanks, Fred!

@electrickery So is it "the same as the " [delwrite~ x] and [vd~] pair, where the creation argument for [delwrite~] sets the max delay (the size of the total sample) and the the right inlet sets the "sampled part" to be read.
Your help file is better, but maybe the creation argument purpose needs to be "hammered", as it is not consistent with most other objects .
David.

but maybe the creation argument purpose needs to be "hammered", as it is not consistent with most other objects .

Not really, David. This object must be an exact copy of Max's [delay], and if that object works as Fred describes, then the cyclone object is good to go. One should use cyclone mainly when converting patches from Max as, IMO, we usually have better suited objects dedicated to Pd (in this case, [z~]).

Cheers!
Gilberto

@gsagostinho Hello Gilberto,
But... but but... but..but (woof) but..... even you thought that it was flawed....... No newbie will know that, and neither did YOU or i. So @electickery's help would be most useful for anyone who "falls" across [delay~].
WOOF........... the name is so obviously useful ((delay...woof, I wonder what it does??)) (unlike [z~]... duh... I give up!) and YOU, and i, and S.ELLIOT.PEREZ thought it was flawed, even "broken" (your words). I think that you are probably one of the "chosen few" that know that the cyclone library is for "Max translation". The rest of us just wonder at the aptness of "cyclone", and find all of the tools incredibly useful..
David.

@whale-av I think what needs to be done is what Fred proposed: improve the help file. But changing the object is a no-no, it must be compatible with Max, that's the sole purpose of its existence! It may confuse a beginner or two, but I mean... they will soon find about [z~] or rather [delwrite~] and that's that. Meanwhile someone looking to import a patch from Max can be guaranteed it will be reproduced flawlessly in Pd.

So you know, even if a Max object would be broken in some way (which is not the case here), then the cyclone library must copy its "brokeness" to the uttermost detail!

EDIT: something just crossed my mind: maybe I am misunderstanding what you meant by "hammered". If you meant better explained, then we are actually both talking about the same thing and I apologize for the message. If you meant modified as to fit how the other objects in Pd work, then my answer above stands

@gsagostinho No, I was not suggesting that the object should be changed, just that the fact that the creation argument "IS" the maximum delay should be OBVIOUS as it is currently obviously NOT....... and that the right inlet takes the "customers requirement".
David.

So yeah, just ignore my last message. Sorry, I am obviously not a native speaker as you must have noticed a quadrillion times in this forum.

I'm a native speaker, and I wasn't sure what "hammered" meant either...

@s.elliot.perez Yes, sorry, sloppy posting!
"Your help file is better, but maybe the creation argument purpose needs to be "hammered home", as it is not consistent with most other objects." would have been much better...
David.

Ah, I would have said "driven home", but maybe some people say "hammer home". shrugs And yes, even after reading electrickery's file, I actually still didn't understand the importance of the argument and was confused as to why it was working until I read whale-av's comment.

Thank you for your comments. I will look at the [delay~] help patch again.

As I found out several times, the objects in Max5 and cyclone do not appear to be very consistently designed, and there is not much you can do to fix this in the help patches. But for [delay~] this should be possible.

Greetings,

Fred Jan

Great, Fred, thanks again!

Here the latest delay~-help.pd help patch.

If there are more remarks on cyclone help-patches, I would happy to consider them. After all, Pure Data is a community driven project!

Greetings,

Fred Jan

@electrickery Hello Fred,
Sorry to trouble you, but here is your help patch with 20 seconds of delay:
Delay-Help_20secs.pd
Is the 10 second theoretical limit because that would be the limit for this object in Max?
David.

@whale-av; Hi David,

No there is no real limit in the code, other than what Pd is allowed to claim from the OS. And twenty seconds works for me with your patch, but it strains my attention span . 20 seconds is very long in 'click-and response-time'.

Greetings,

Fred Jan