So, I have a 16 step array that is basically a 16 step step-sequencer for pitch control.

I'm really new to TouchOSC, and I'm wondering if it is possible to use the grid object in TouchOSC to write onto that 16 step step-sequencer array in PD.

To add insult to injury, I'd also prefer to find out if TouchOSC can somehow magically receive what the Array is showing. (ideally I'm looking at a way to see the array, be it 16 steps, or 65536 steps (my 64kb loopers that i have 16 of them).

Does anyone know if it is possible to do a back'n'forth type thing between TouchOSC on the iPad and PureData?
globpitcharray.pd

hmm. try as i might, i'm just not getting a connection going.
i've used what @ddw_music said about [netreceive -u -b 7878] -> [oscparse] -> [print]
but to no avail.
on the iPad, I've set OSC to connect to TCP SERVER set to port 7878.
on TouchOSC on macOS, I've set up OSC -> Connections 1 -> TCP Client and used Browse to find the iPad Mini.

In theory, I should now be rolling. instead, PD tells me warning: MIDI timing FIFO overflowed - nothing appears on the console, and the iPad keeps trying to reconnect to the server (I've got the Editor Network Server Enabled so can edit the TouchOSC script while using it on the iPad)

I don't know what I'm doing wrong anymore. I need to be using both Bridge, MIDI and now OSC.

@esaruoho You will need to select UDP client........ not TCP...... to connect to [netreceive -u -b]

Fifo (first in first out) overflowed probably just means the buffer has filled to overflow as it is not managing to send the messages onwards.

For TCP then use [netreceive -b] ...... remove the -u....
David.

First, don't give up! You're probably pretty close -- it's just that there are several links in the chain, and they all have to be right:

• Protocol must match: If it's [netreceive -u -b], then the sender needs to use UDP (as the preceding post explains).
• IP address must match.
• TouchOSC sending-to port must match the Pd receiving-on port. (In other contexts, I've often seen people's initial attempts with OSC get slowed down by confusion about TO and FROM ports. I think you're fine here though.)
• Also the LAN needs to allow messages between devices. (Some LANs can be configured to block local communication.)
• Also the computer's firewall needs to allow traffic on the ports being used.

But once you struggle through these issues the first time, then you understand it and it's much easier later.

hjh

so i decided to ditch UDP and just use TCP.

after removing the -u i had to restart PD + TouchOSC and re-enable TCPIP Client and Server.
now I'm getting really noisy print errors and complaints about oscparse not receiving OSC messages. (i don't understand what the error is about)

is this error because i'm using tcpip instead of udp?

It's much more common to transmit OSC messages over a LAN using UDP.

From my perspective here: I've been using OSC successfully for years, never ran into any of the headaches you're reporting. I made some suggestions of what has worked for me. Then you do something different from what was suggested ("so i decided to ditch UDP and just use TCP" -- why?) ... and then it doesn't work. So I feel at this point like my ability to help is somewhat limited.

hjh

BTW I can confirm that [netreceive -b] (TCP mode) is not compatible with oscparse. It appears that TCP mode outputs single bytes where UDP mode outputs a whole packet as a list (that is, no way to receive TCP packets)... in 0.52.2, maybe it's changed in 0.54.

Sent identical packets, but...

So... can you try UDP?

hjh

@ddw_music said:

It's much more common to transmit OSC messages over a LAN using UDP.

From my perspective here: I've been using OSC successfully for years, never ran into any of the headaches you're reporting. I made some suggestions of what has worked for me. Then you do something different from what was suggested ("so i decided to ditch UDP and just use TCP" -- why?) ... and then it doesn't work. So I feel at this point like my ability to help is somewhat limited.

hjh

so the reason why i moved from udp was that i couldn't get a connection going on between TouchOSC on iPad, TouchOSC on macOS, TouchOSC Bridge app and PureData.
I could try again, but it looked like UDP required me to know the IP address of both the laptop and the iPad, and that really threw me (i don't know how to figure out what the IP address of the iPad is, or how to make sure it's always the same, same for macOS).

btw after unsuccessfully getting anything going with TCP, i ended up just creating a regular array on TouchOSC and inputting it into PureData, which i got working. the fancier PD + TouchOSC compilation zip provided by @whale-av still sounds very very good and nice, if only i could comprehend what else i need to add to it for it to receive the OSC / UDP.

unfortunately my "also in Finland" go-to-guy on TouchOSC wasn't able to help me with the UDP or TCP connection either. i'm trying to all of this tethered via USB-cable, which normally works for at least MIDI and TouchOSC "on -iPad-editing" via Server inside TouchOSC.
just couldn't figure out UDP/TCP.

i apologize for switching contexts and jumping around from udp to tcp, i have maybe an hour every 2-3 days to try and get something going, and also feel a bit like there's no "TouchOSC with PureData for idiots" blog-post for iPad / macOS going on, or at least i haven't been able to find it.

I've resisted OSC since 2009 pretty much but now that I can control most of my script with TouchOSC on the iPad, it's quite mesmerizing. just getting this stepsequencer going (and back'n'forth communication between PureData and TouchOSC on iPad so i press a button on PureData and TouchOSC also lights up, type thing) would be pretty amazing but i'm probably going about it the wrong way all the time.

I'll try to stick with UDP, since it was mentioned that oscparse only works with that.

@esaruoho

btw after unsuccessfully getting anything going with TCP, i ended up just creating a regular array on TouchOSC and inputting it into PureData, which i got working.

That's good news, but we don't know what you have achieved.
If you get a chance, please write exactly what you have done for the touchosc layout, the connection, the bridge and pd.
A screenshot of the touchosc editor for the simple array, and a screenshot of the settings in touchosc on the ipad.
Plus whatever else you think will make it clear how you succeeded.
David.

@esaruoho said:

and also feel a bit like there's no "TouchOSC with PureData for idiots" blog-post for iPad / macOS going on, or at least i haven't been able to find it.

As I mentioned in another recent thread of yours where you were exploring iPad control options, I had some experiences with this type of setup several years ago:
https://forum.pdpatchrepo.info/topic/10184/touchosc-direct-usb-connection-finally-possible-with-midimux

I just tested it & it's still working. (7 years later!) I have midimux & TouchOSC running on the iPad, and studiomux & Pd running on my Mac. As mentioned in my old thread, the iPad must be connected to wifi (any active network, doesn't matter which) in order to send OSC data over the tethered USB connection.

And yes, you will most certainly need to know the IP addresses of the Mac & iPad (for use with [netsend] in Pd, and with TouchOSC on the iPad). I don't know of a way to ensure that they will be persistent, I've always had to reenter them manually every time. Also make sure your in/out port numbers are in order (again, on the Pd side for [netsend] and [netreceive], and on the iPad you can set the in/out port numbers in midimux).

Ah, and finally I'm using [netreceive -u -b] into [oscparse] and [list trim] for receiving in Pd, and [oscformat foo bar etc] into [list prepend send] then [list trim] then [netsend -u -b] for sending out from Pd.

@esaruoho said:

I could try again, but it looked like UDP required me to know the IP address of both the laptop and the iPad, and that really threw me (i don't know how to figure out what the IP address of the iPad is, or how to make sure it's always the same, same for macOS).

Ah right, for bidirectional communication.

Actually in the netreceive help file, there is a flag for this: "optional -f flag for from address & port outlet (0.51+)".

Help file example prints from: list ::ffff:127.0.0.1 57120 where ::ffff:127.0.0.1 is an IPv6 address.

So...

... should configure the [netsend] to send to the first address from which messages were received (and I did a quick test, which worked). If you enable "Ping" in TouchOSC, then it will automatically send a message to the computer, which will trigger the "connect" logic right away.

Incidentally, I didn't know about this feature (never used the "from" address in Pd). My thought process was, "Well... this is a very common requirement, so let me have a look at the [netreceive] help patch and see if there's anything about 'from'" -- and toward the lower right, there's a [print from] box. Hm. Then, what's different about the [netreceive] feeding it is that it isn't only "-u -b xxxx" but rather "-u -b -f xxxx"... what's that "-f"? Then, looking up from there a little bit, there's a list of object creation flags, where "-f" is explained.

So the solution exists, and documentation for that solution is actually reasonably clear.

i have maybe an hour every 2-3 days to try and get something going, and also feel a bit like there's no "TouchOSC with PureData for idiots" blog-post for iPad / macOS going on, or at least i haven't been able to find it.

This I fully understand.

Pd OSC sending, like this. It won't send anything until after you push a connect ip.ad.dr.ess port message into the netsend inlet -- as noted above, you can get the parameters for the connect message from [netreceive].

... producing messages like /1/toggle1 1.0 or /1/toggle2 0.0. This type of message format is what you need to change a control's value on the tablet.

It's also possible to "set" the OSC command path before providing the arguments -- but try the simple way first.

hjh

@ddw_music said:

For iOS: https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/iphone/iph45447ca6/ios

Connect a Mac or PC to your Personal Hotspot
You can use Wi-Fi, a USB cable, or Bluetooth to connect a Mac or PC to your Personal Hotspot. Do one of the following:
...
Use USB: Connect iPhone and your computer with a cable. If you receive an alert that says Trust this Computer?, tap Trust. In your computer’s network preferences, choose iPhone, then configure the network settings.
...
After that, the Mac should have an IP address that directly connected to the mobile, through the cable. There's no reason at this point TouchOSC would be prevented from sending and receiving OSC messages (while allowing MIDI...? that doesn't make any sense).

Hmm. Thing is, I'm using a fully Airplane Mode iPad with no Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, Cellular Data connectivity. I'm only using a USB-cable to connect between macOS and iPadOS with TouchOSC - so I'm not 100% how Personal Hotspot would help me make the OSC connection via USB-tethered iPad + macOS.

@whale-av said:

we don't know what you have achieved. If you get a chance, please write exactly what you have done for the touchosc layout, the connection, the bridge and pd.
A screenshot of the touchosc editor for the simple array, and a screenshot of the settings in touchosc on the ipad.
Plus whatever else you think will make it clear how you succeeded.

This I can understand. I hope the contents below will shed some light as to what I accomplished and how I accomplished it.

Okay, I'll try to write in an informative way.

When I realized that I couldn't do UDP/TCPIP/OSC things in a simple-enough (for me) way, and I couldn't get them to talk together, and I just wasn't able to conceive of what I was doing wrong, what I ended up doing is this:

1. Create a Grid in TouchOSC limited to 16
2. Set it up so that it sends to midiCH 6, and from CC 41 to CC 56 (i.e., 16 places)
3. figure out what the math was for getting the 0...127 grid to become -2 to 8 or something. (ok I asked ChatGPT for that and it gave me the answers)
4. Create a really hamfisted PD script that takes the 0...127 input from all of those CCs, and slams the modified 0...127 data to the first inlet of a tabwrite, and a hardcoded message with a number to the second inlet of the tabwrite. It looks really bad, and I could've made it better with a spigot or something, but I just wanted it to work quickly and see if I could use it.
5. The Array <-> TouchOSC Grid is one way, there's no communication from PD back to the Grid object to signify which step is being played.

as mentioned above, it looks like absolute trash. i just wanted it to work since had a working day the next day and limited time. i haven't even taken the time to clean it up, or to re-think how it could be simplified so that it doesn't need to look like such a crazy birdnest. (i really detest when my scripts look like this, and prefer to clear them up and use abstractions, but .. it works for now)

it's a simple thing in TouchOSC

and yep I'm still using MIDI only to talk to TouchOSC Bridge app running on macOS (iPad sends via MIDI to TouchOSC Bridge, which becomes a midiport in PD that i've mapped my PD script to talk to)

so, now that i have this "well it'll do in a pinch, kinda works, aargh but works" type thing, i feel like it would be really cool to comprehend UDP OSC but if it requires manually (and this'd be in the heat of the moment, just before a gig starts) figuring out IP addresses for both the iPad and macOS and changing a PD script just before the gig starts, could be quite nervewracking. But since the grid highlights based on which step it is running in, that would be pretty amazing.

@beep.beep said:

As mentioned in my old thread, the iPad must be connected to wifi (any active network, doesn't matter which) in order to send OSC data over the tethered USB connection.

Yeah, this is nightmarish. When i'm jamming with my friend or playing a gig, I don't want to have any Wi-Fi on at all, so if OSC refuses to work via USB-tethering unless if there's a Wi-Fi connection on, I cannot use it and will stop thinking about it. (We gig at libraries, and one can never know if there will be a stable enough Wi-Fi connection, and I am not connected to anything at all during the gig to make sure there's no notifications and other such stuff that could detract from the focus. So no network connection and no internet apps at all)

Maybe there's a way of accomplishing what I want to accomplish via MIDI only, and never use the OSC aspect of TouchOSC.

well at least it's less of a birdsnest now, but i have a feeling that this should be done in a better way.

FWIW I eventually bought a cheap WiFi router to use only for shows (not only for the tablet controller, but also for Ableton Link if it's a group jam). Only the players know the password (no extra traffic) and I never attach an Ethernet cable, so no outside traffic. The device is under my control, so there's no more "venue's WiFi is unreliable." (One recommendation btw is to turn off discovery on this router, so that the audience's phones never even know it's there.)

Android used to allow tethering without a live internet connection. My current devices don't allow that, which is just a mind-blowingly stupid evolution (but shows you that the purpose of these devices isn't creative, it's to get you to spend more money more quickly -- "why, if it's not online, then... we just can't imagine any purpose for that"). If iOS never allowed it, then

hjh

Btw did you notice in your MIDI patch that cc 41 maps onto index 0, and cc 42 onto 1, and 43 --> 2, and 44 --> 3, up to 56 --> 15... meaning that you can delete the whole rat's nest and do:

[ctlin]  (without a cc filter)
|   |
|   [- 41]
|
[* 0.787]
etc

Looking for patterns can save a ton of manual labor.

hjh

@ddw_music said:

For iOS: https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/iphone/iph45447ca6/ios

Connect a Mac or PC to your Personal Hotspot
You can use Wi-Fi, a USB cable, or Bluetooth to connect a Mac or PC to your Personal Hotspot. Do one of the following:
...
Use USB: Connect iPhone and your computer with a cable. If you receive an alert that says Trust this Computer?, tap Trust. In your computer’s network preferences, choose iPhone, then configure the network settings.
...
After that, the Mac should have an IP address that directly connected to the mobile, through the cable. There's no reason at this point TouchOSC would be prevented from sending and receiving OSC messages (while allowing MIDI...? that doesn't make any sense).

Hmm. Thing is, I'm using a fully Airplane Mode iPad with no Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, Cellular Data connectivity. I'm only using a USB-cable to connect between macOS and iPadOS with TouchOSC - so I'm not 100% how Personal Hotspot -specific IP addresses will assist.
overall it seems like there just might not be a netless-USB-tether way of identifying what the iPad's IP address is. all the stuff i see, is about using the iPad as a personal hotspot over usb-cable, and therefore having an IP address to connect PD onto for OSC back'n'forth communication.

@ddw_music said:

Btw did you notice in your MIDI patch that cc 41 maps onto index 0, and cc 42 onto 1, and 43 --> 2, and 44 --> 3, up to 56 --> 15... meaning that you can delete the whole rat's nest and do:

[ctlin]  (without a cc filter)
|   |
|   [- 41]
|
[* 0.787]
etc

Looking for patterns can save a ton of manual labor.

hjh

that is pretty sweet! unfortunately, here my problem is that i need this to only be happening if it is coming from a specific midi-port.
to show my current TouchOSC nightmare, it is currently like this:

so i cannot simply go "sure, everything 41-56", because i'm using it in multiple places. i need to only be catching ctlin 41-56 coming from midichannel 6, otherwise i'll be catching all kinds of un-related stuff.

so while the [- 41] definitely would assist, the required logic is to discard anything 41-56 that isn't coming from channel 6.
if that can be easily solved, that'd be pretty hot!

continuing with OSC:
there's apparently this command arp -a that i can run on the terminal
i get a list of bunches of IP addresses, then when i move a slider on TouchOSC, the iPad-specific IP appears:

$ arp -a
? (10.0.1.1) at f0:99:bf:0:c2:5c on en8 ifscope [ethernet]
? (10.0.1.2) at 3a:69:f1:6f:e7:a4 on en8 ifscope [ethernet]
? (10.0.1.6) at (incomplete) on en8 ifscope [ethernet]
? (10.0.1.8) at 64:4b:f0:13:9d:b7 on en8 ifscope permanent [ethernet]
? (10.0.1.15) at (incomplete) on en8 ifscope [ethernet]
? (10.0.1.255) at ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff on en8 ifscope [ethernet]
? (169.254.7.238) at (incomplete) on en8 [ethernet]
esaipadmini.local (169.254.68.27) at c6:b:31:36:6b:a6 on en12 [ethernet]
esasoftabilitym1.local (169.254.168.156) at c6:b:31:40:41:93 on en12 permanent [ethernet]
? (224.0.0.251) at 1:0:5e:0:0:fb on en12 ifscope permanent [ethernet]
? (224.0.0.251) at 1:0:5e:0:0:fb on en8 ifscope permanent [ethernet]
broadcasthost (255.255.255.255) at ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff on en8 ifscope [ethernet]

so armed with this knowledge, i went in and did

and

and then ..

it works!! it.. works!!!!!
and @beep.beep - i'm running fully usb-tethered with all wi-fi bluetooth mobiledata off. can you have a look and see if this will solve your "OSC only works with wi-fi" issue?

@whale-av said:

@esaruoho OSC is horrible in Vanilla..... because message headers are symbols but can include numbers that Pd interprets as floats. It is much easier to use the MrPeach externals.

Anyway...... vanilla....... plom.zip using a multifader object.
The index currently played by metro turns green.....
David.
Low-res screenshot.......

ok, so now that i have UDP working, what specifically do i need to modify in plom.zip for the [netreceive] to be patched onto it? it seems that the PD script example you provided does not have anything related to [netreceive] or [netsend] .