Hi guys, thank you for all suggestions.

Just a ramp with [line~] doensn't make the job because it produces glissando acting only on the next frequency.
In the F09.declickit example suggested by lacuna about the changing of the center of frequency by adding two cosine, occurs a very smooth transition, very pleasent to hear, involving both previous and next frequency.

ideal transition.pd

But this patch change the center of frequency of a given frequency, I need that smooth transitions to change from/to any frequencies. Any suggestions? Thank you.

Hi guys,

whether the transition between two close frequencies is so smooth, the transition between distant frequencies is so rough due to the high wavelenght difference. I'm guessing whether exist some technique that can be involved to smooth that transition.
frequency transition.pd

Thanks in advance,
Matteo

@oid Hi, thanks for answering, these are very useful informations to know before start to design a portable solution. But this is not my case since this project is designed to run on laptop\desktop computer.

@whale-av Hi David, thanks for the suggestions.

In order to satisfy all ENT parameters, the best option is to get the varying amplitude from [env~] and using [mod] to evenly spread the values.

Here the test of a so generated 180.000 byte bin file, the results are within the normal required parameters.

Entropy is 7.999070 bits per byte. This value is the information density of the contents of the file, expressed as a number of bits per byte. So the file is essentially random.

The chi-square distribution is 84.08%. This test is the most commonly used test for the randomness of data calculated for the stream of bytes in the file and expressed as an absolute number and a percentage which indicates how frequently a truly random sequence would exceed the value calculated. If the percentages is between 10% and 90% the sequence is random.

C:\Users\Lenovo\Desktop\ENT\random>ent -c 1.bin
Value Char Occurrences Fraction
  0              683   0.003781
  1              730   0.004041
  2              731   0.004047
  3              717   0.003969
  4              705   0.003903
  5              717   0.003969
  6              720   0.003986
  7              709   0.003925
  8              707   0.003914
  9              696   0.003853
 10              703   0.003892
 11              685   0.003792
 12              713   0.003947
 13              707   0.003914
 14              674   0.003731
 15              708   0.003919
 16              653   0.003615
 17              700   0.003875
 18              699   0.003870
 19              685   0.003792
 20              720   0.003986
 21              710   0.003930
 22              733   0.004058
 23              722   0.003997
 24              647   0.003582
 25              691   0.003825
 26              656   0.003632
 27              699   0.003870
 28              677   0.003748
 29              674   0.003731
 30              696   0.003853
 31              700   0.003875
 32              672   0.003720
 33   !          693   0.003836
 34   "          727   0.004025
 35   #          744   0.004119
 36   $          769   0.004257
 37   %          735   0.004069
 38   &          663   0.003670
 39   '          715   0.003958
 40   (          680   0.003764
 41   )          712   0.003942
 42   *          713   0.003947
 43   +          692   0.003831
 44   ,          737   0.004080
 45   -          649   0.003593
 46   .          677   0.003748
 47   /          728   0.004030
 48   0          721   0.003991
 49   1          729   0.004036
 50   2          689   0.003814
 51   3          724   0.004008
 52   4          701   0.003881
 53   5          685   0.003792
 54   6          678   0.003753
 55   7          671   0.003715
 56   8          694   0.003842
 57   9          687   0.003803
 58   :          719   0.003980
 59   ;          764   0.004229
 60   <          736   0.004074
 61   =          688   0.003809
 62   >          699   0.003870
 63   ?          749   0.004146
 64   @          724   0.004008
 65   A          742   0.004108
 66   B          660   0.003654
 67   C          695   0.003847
 68   D          721   0.003991
 69   E          710   0.003930
 70   F          677   0.003748
 71   G          697   0.003859
 72   H          715   0.003958
 73   I          712   0.003942
 74   J          692   0.003831
 75   K          729   0.004036
 76   L          702   0.003886
 77   M          717   0.003969
 78   N          702   0.003886
 79   O          696   0.003853
 80   P          692   0.003831
 81   Q          753   0.004169
 82   R          729   0.004036
 83   S          726   0.004019
 84   T          742   0.004108
 85   U          687   0.003803
 86   V          689   0.003814
 87   W          652   0.003609
 88   X          700   0.003875
 89   Y          738   0.004085
 90   Z          683   0.003781
 91   [          700   0.003875
 92   \          703   0.003892
 93   ]          728   0.004030
 94   ^          735   0.004069
 95   _          711   0.003936
 96   `          724   0.004008
 97   a          742   0.004108
 98   b          690   0.003820
 99   c          723   0.004002
100   d          705   0.003903
101   e          703   0.003892
102   f          706   0.003908
103   g          735   0.004069
104   h          693   0.003836
105   i          719   0.003980
106   j          711   0.003936
107   k          650   0.003598
108   l          724   0.004008
109   m          712   0.003942
110   n          669   0.003704
111   o          697   0.003859
112   p          729   0.004036
113   q          661   0.003659
114   r          666   0.003687
115   s          740   0.004097
116   t          742   0.004108
117   u          710   0.003930
118   v          685   0.003792
119   w          758   0.004196
120   x          669   0.003704
121   y          701   0.003881
122   z          720   0.003986
123   {          694   0.003842
124   |          725   0.004014
125   }          658   0.003643
126   ~          699   0.003870
127              669   0.003704
128              725   0.004014
129              712   0.003942
130              755   0.004180
131              682   0.003775
132              727   0.004025
133              712   0.003942
134              732   0.004052
135              750   0.004152
136              726   0.004019
137              678   0.003753
138              695   0.003847
139              701   0.003881
140              709   0.003925
141              702   0.003886
142              710   0.003930
143              696   0.003853
144              729   0.004036
145              684   0.003787
146              702   0.003886
147              694   0.003842
148              691   0.003825
149              707   0.003914
150              739   0.004091
151              685   0.003792
152              738   0.004085
153              694   0.003842
154              687   0.003803
155              696   0.003853
156              692   0.003831
157              627   0.003471
158              715   0.003958
159              716   0.003964
160              695   0.003847
161   í          715   0.003958
162   ó          697   0.003859
163   ú          675   0.003737
164   ñ          721   0.003991
165   Ñ          724   0.004008
166   ª          681   0.003770
167   º          712   0.003942
168   ¿          693   0.003836
169   ®          696   0.003853
170   ¬          708   0.003919
171   ½          692   0.003831
172   ¼          666   0.003687
173   ¡          694   0.003842
174   «          711   0.003936
175   »          711   0.003936
176   ░          747   0.004135
177   ▒          685   0.003792
178   ▓          702   0.003886
179   │          709   0.003925
180   ┤          684   0.003787
181   Á          668   0.003698
182   Â          750   0.004152
183   À          683   0.003781
184   ©          701   0.003881
185   ╣          674   0.003731
186   ║          661   0.003659
187   ╗          696   0.003853
188   ╝          700   0.003875
189   ¢          720   0.003986
190   ¥          681   0.003770
191   ┐          742   0.004108
192   └          681   0.003770
193   ┴          697   0.003859
194   ┬          757   0.004191
195   ├          682   0.003775
196   ─          715   0.003958
197   ┼          711   0.003936
198   ã          706   0.003908
199   Ã          734   0.004063
200   ╚          743   0.004113
201   ╔          708   0.003919
202   ╩          697   0.003859
203   ╦          717   0.003969
204   ╠          757   0.004191
205   ═          690   0.003820
206   ╬          684   0.003787
207   ¤          718   0.003975
208   ð          662   0.003665
209   Ð          741   0.004102
210   Ê          739   0.004091
211   Ë          750   0.004152
212   È          691   0.003825
213   ı          695   0.003847
214   Í          735   0.004069
215   Î          698   0.003864
216   Ï          690   0.003820
217   ┘          718   0.003975
218   ┌          721   0.003991
219   █          693   0.003836
220   ▄          696   0.003853
221   ¦          690   0.003820
222   Ì          716   0.003964
223   ▀          723   0.004002
224   Ó          719   0.003980
225   ß          697   0.003859
226   Ô          732   0.004052
227   Ò          691   0.003825
228   õ          733   0.004058
229   Õ          752   0.004163
230   µ          680   0.003764
231   þ          701   0.003881
232   Þ          746   0.004130
233   Ú          729   0.004036
234   Û          702   0.003886
235   Ù          711   0.003936
236   ý          694   0.003842
237   Ý          661   0.003659
238   ¯          741   0.004102
239   ´          717   0.003969
240   ­           757   0.004191
241   ±          686   0.003798
242   ‗          754   0.004174
243   ¾          722   0.003997
244   ¶          722   0.003997
245   §          691   0.003825
246   ÷          725   0.004014
247   ¸          741   0.004102
248   °          702   0.003886
249   ¨          653   0.003615
250   ·          695   0.003847
251   ¹          711   0.003936
252   ³          668   0.003698
253   ²          700   0.003875
254   ■          687   0.003803
255              667   0.003692

Total:        180639   1.000000

Entropy = 7.999070 bits per byte.

Optimum compression would reduce the size
of this 180639 byte file by 0 percent.

Chi square distribution for 180639 samples is 232.49, and randomly
would exceed this value 84.08 percent of the times.

Arithmetic mean value of data bytes is 127.6331 (127.5 = random).
Monte Carlo value for Pi is 3.132000266 (error 0.31 percent).
Serial correlation coefficient is -0.000969 (totally uncorrelated = 0.0).Insert Code Here

Hi David, thanks for answering,
I tested the entropy of the thermal noise with ENT and I found it's rather a week entropy source.

The tested file is 100.000 byte, I used [snapshot~] to convert signals into values, and [binfile] to create a 256 character bin file.

The result of entropy is 5,554712 bits per character, and optimum compression would reduce the size of this 100.000 byte file by 30 %. The file is considered to be essentially random when compression is 0%.
As well as entropy all others values are out of parameters

C:\Users\Lenovo\Desktop\ENT\random>ent -c 14.bin
Value Char Occurrences Fraction
  0             1724   0.017240
  3             3507   0.035070
  7             3520   0.035200
 11             3559   0.035590
 15             3487   0.034870
 19             3361   0.033610
 23             3396   0.033960
 27             3353   0.033530
 31             3310   0.033100
 35   #         3321   0.033210
 38   &         3157   0.031570
 42   *         3235   0.032350
 46   .         3085   0.030850
 50   2         3069   0.030690
 54   6         2913   0.029130
 58   :         2750   0.027500
 62   >         2753   0.027530
 66   B         2707   0.027070
 70   F         2456   0.024560
 73   I         2504   0.025040
 77   M         2384   0.023840
 81   Q         2326   0.023260
 85   U         2181   0.021810
 89   Y         2140   0.021400
 93   ]         2001   0.020010
 97   a         1921   0.019210
101   e         1762   0.017620
105   i         1643   0.016430
108   l         1642   0.016420
112   p         1537   0.015370
116   t         1444   0.014440
120   x         1397   0.013970
124   |         1266   0.012660
128             1188   0.011880
132             1115   0.011150
136              996   0.009960
140              984   0.009840
143              909   0.009090
147              774   0.007740
151              842   0.008420
155              769   0.007690
159              642   0.006420
163   ú          626   0.006260
167   º          567   0.005670
171   ½          533   0.005330
175   »          508   0.005080
178   ▓          426   0.004260
182   Â          406   0.004060
186   ║          375   0.003750
190   ¥          352   0.003520
194   ┬          320   0.003200
198   ã          314   0.003140
202   ╩          292   0.002920
206   ╬          228   0.002280
210   Ê          212   0.002120
214   Í          201   0.002010
217   ┘          186   0.001860
221   ¦          157   0.001570
225   ß          123   0.001230
229   Õ          128   0.001280
233   Ú          110   0.001100
237   Ý          105   0.001050
241   ±           95   0.000950
245   §           74   0.000740
249   ¨           79   0.000790
252   ³           68   0.000680
255              485   0.004850

Total:        100000   1.000000

Entropy = 5.554712 bits per byte.

Optimum compression would reduce the size
of this 100000 byte file by 30 percent.

Chi square distribution for 100000 samples is 530303.93, and randomly
would exceed this value less than 0.01 percent of the times.

Arithmetic mean value of data bytes is 69.9192 (127.5 = random).
Monte Carlo value for Pi is 3.924156966 (error 24.91 percent).
Serial correlation coefficient is 0.042567 (totally uncorrelated = 0.0).

Even though ADC thermal noise is a week entropy source it's still true random as well as vhf and uhf signals. Some post-processing might be able to reshape the statistical characteristics of the data.

Thanks,
Matteo

Hi guys,

I have a question about the nature of noise outputted by [adc~], even though no microphone or other input device are connected to it.

Internally, all ADC circuits produce a certain amount of rms noise which is mostly determined by three different contributors: quantization, thermal noise and clock jitter.

Since quantization and clock jitter are data converter noise and no external input has to be processed, I suppose this is solely determinated by the internal thermal noise due the physical movement of charge inside electrical conductors in the adc.

Can someone confirm or invalid this thesis?
Thanks,
Matteo

@whale-av said:

this old thread went a very long way to solving the problems...

I hadn't seen that one. Thanks

Hi guys,

I'm trying to vocalize a whisper speech using fft convolution; starting from two distinct inputs <a sampled vocal and a whisper speech> I have seen that is possible to generate a sort of vocal/normal speech.

I wonder if is there a way to improve the quality of the convolution process so that the result will sound more similar to the input vocal timbre than it is now.

Thanks in advance.
wts.zip

@whale-av [adc~] gives some noise even without microphone, that noise is enough if moltiplied in amplitude, you don't need more volume, the limiter stabilize the incoming signal whatever the mic setting in your system.
I din't realize it was for an android app, I posted here because is based on your configuration.
What does this have to do with the old thread about [seed(?
Thanks

@whale-av What if the array is filled by "true noise" from adc?
-setting a threshold of the incoming signal with a limiter so that microphone volume is irrilevant;
-combine the table data and a saw-tooth wave in fm synthesis to generate both complexity and uniform distribution.
Can this be considered true random?
Thanks
fm random.pd

@myQwil; @jancsika I did other tests, as you suggested the behavior is actually due by the number of objects and the sequence of patching, the priority given to linking objects is decisive. Thanks

@jancsika said:

The stack overflow is still going to be triggered deterministically, so I don't think that's going to work.

Sure it is triggered deterministically, but I would like to know the underline reason why the result of the 2 number box in loop is different to the single one? Can anyone explain me why? Thanks

@ingox The translation of the patch was fine, there wasn't any error, but when I run the patch in html I have just the initial frequency without changing, the random process doesn't start

@whale-av Hi David I didn't even try to get the time from the web in javascript.. The much more viable option for me right know is do everything in pd.

@ingox Thank you so much but I haven't had a chance to try out translation in javascript yet, the 'enzienaudio' site, which is where I do that, is down from yesterday. I'll keep you update as soon as I have been able to try it.

And therefore there isn't any way to do it with [timer]?

Both solutions works. Thanks.
However I can't use them for my purpose; The patch should runs in the web browser and [time] [realtime] are not supported, also when I seed random with [adc] noise and translate the patch in the javascript file and opening it in the browser the result is just a flat frequency without changing...

Hi guys have a look at this patch seed rn.pd
When I manually bang the process, [timer] seeds [random] giving different sequences at every new start. But when I'm going to automate the start of the process adding [loadbang] it doesn't work anymore, it gives always the same sequence. Why, and how can I fix it?
I can use only vanilla objects. Thanks in advance.
Matteo

Thank you all for your time, it helped clear things up for me.